The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

News

The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

4 Apr 2025

The Government has published “emergency legislation” to block new sentencing guidelines. But why does Parliament have limited oversight of the Sentencing Council? Has heavy handed policing interfered with the work of an MP? What do disabled MPs make of Westminster - the building and the procedures? And after a 25-hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

LISTEN

The Government has published “emergency legislation” — the Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill — to block new guidelines coming into effect that single out differential treatment of ethnic minority offenders when ordering pre-sentencing reports. These reports would then be used by judges to make decisions on sentencing. Critics are calling it a case of “two-tier justice.” The Lord Chancellor Shabana Mahmood says there’s “insufficient democratic oversight” of how the Sentencing Council operates.

In this episode, Ruth and Mark examine Parliament’s limited ability to scrutinise Sentencing Council guidelines — why that’s the case, how it could have been different, and why successive governments have failed to address it. They trace the issue back to a 2009 “Christmas Tree” law that had so many policy baubles it was difficult to scrutinise, an enduring trend of outsourcing decision-making to arms-length bodies, and a culture of “perma-crisis” that has defined UK politics for over 15 years.

Also in this episode: Chancellor Rachel Reeves’ big moment before the Treasury Committee is eclipsed by President Trump’s shock international tariff announcement. At the Transport Committee, Heathrow’s Chief Executive issues a full apology for the massive flight disruption caused by a power station fire that brought the Airport to a halt. Meanwhile, MPs with disabilities and health conditions testify before the Commons Modernisation Committee about the challenges they face navigating Westminster - the building and the procedures.

Plus: Did Hertfordshire Police cross a constitutional line by warning former Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden MP not to look into the arrest of two of his constituents over “disparaging comments” they made in their child’s school WhatsApp group? Ruth and Mark consider how other cases involving vexatious constituents have been handled by MPs and how the issues engage parliamentary privilege.

After Cory Booker’s 25-hour speech in the US Senate, could a filibuster ever happen in Westminster? (Spoiler: absolutely not.) And should MPs be lobbying foreign governments to build airports when they oppose them here in the UK?

← Back to Parliament Matters homepage

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Resources

House of Commons

Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Sentencing Council

Sentencing guidelines: Imposition of community and custodial sentences

House of Commons Treasury Select Committee

Spring Statement 2025 (2 April 2025): Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP (Chancellor of the Exchequer at HM Treasury), Louise Tinsley (HM Treasury official), and William MacFarlane (HM Treasury official)
- Oral evidence transcript and video recording
Spring Statement 2025 (1 April 2025): Paul Johnson (Institute for Fiscal Studies), Dr Jumana Saleheen (Vanguard Asset Management), and Ruth Curtice (Resolution Foundation)
- Oral evidence transcript, video recording 1, and video recording 2

House of Commons Modernisation Committee

Access to the House of Commons and its procedures (1 April 2025): Robert Halfon, Dr Marie Tidball MP, Sarah Bool MP, Steve Darling MP, and Marsha De Cordova MP.
- Video recording

CSPAN

United States Senate Session, 31 March 2025: Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) delivers the longest-ever Senate floor speech

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, A Hansard Society Production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm..

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And I'm Mark D'Arcy. And coming up in this week's episode.

Ruth Fox: The sentencing mess. How the government got into a tangle about new criminal sentencing guidelines and how it plans to untangle it.

Mark D'Arcy: A matter of privilege. Is heavy handed policing interfering in the work of MPs?

Ruth Fox: And after a 25 hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

Mark D'Arcy: And Ruth, let's begin by talking about, as you described it, the sentencing mess. The Sentencing Council, the independent arms length body, [00:01:00] which to some extent has had outsourced to it the policy on how many years tariff there should be for a particular offender who's committed a particular crime, all sorts of issues of sentencing procedure, has basically landed the government in a very difficult position.

It's supposed to be an arm's length body, but it's now recommended something that's very, very uncomfortable for a government.

Ruth Fox: Yes. So what essentially it's done, uh, it has to consult on its guidelines, uh, periodically it held its consultation at the end of 2023, beginning of 2024. At the time, it was sort of passed over politically, both by the government and, and by the opposition.

Nobody really raised any questions about it.

Mark D'Arcy: Because this surfaced actually when the conservatives were still in government.

Ruth Fox: Yes.

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify

More ways to subscribe

Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

Blog / Once again, there is still no alternative: the costed proposals for Restoration and Renewal of the Palace of Westminster

The Restoration and Renewal Client Board’s latest report once again confirms what Parliament has known for nearly a decade: the cheapest, quickest and safest way to restore the Palace of Westminster is for MPs and Peers to move out during the works. The “full decant” option was endorsed in 2018 and reaffirmed repeatedly since. Remaining in the building could more than double costs, extend works into the 2080s, and increase risks to safety, accessibility and security. With the Palace already deteriorating and millions spent each year on patchwork repairs, further delay would itself be an expensive course of action, one that defers decisions without offering a viable alternative.

News / A Humble Address: How MPs confronted the Mandelson scandal - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 130

It has been a bruising week for the Prime Minister after the House of Commons backed a Conservative “Humble Address” demanding documents on Sir Keir Starmer’s vetting of Lord Mandelson for the Washington Ambassadorship. We explain how the procedure works, what role the Intelligence and Security Committee may play in decisions on disclosure, and how legislation to strip a peerage could be introduced. Plus, the latest on the Restoration and Renewal of Parliament as yet another report lands with a new set of costings. Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · Acast · YouTube · Other apps · RSS

News / Why MPs can’t just quit: The curious case of the Chiltern Hundreds - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 129

Why can’t MPs simply resign, and why does leaving the House of Commons still involve a medieval-sounding detour via the Chiltern Hundreds or its less glamorous cousin the Manor of Northstead? This week we unravel the history, constitutional logic and legal fudges behind this curious workaround, with some memorable resignations from the past along the way. We also assess the Government’s legislative programme as the Session heads toward its expected May close, including the striking lack of bills published for pre-legislative scrutiny. Finally, as Parliament begins the five-yearly process of renewing consent for the UK’s armed forces, we examine why an Armed Forces Bill is required and hear from Jayne Kirkham MP on how her Ten Minute Rule Bill helped extend the new Armed Forces Commissioner’s oversight to the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · Acast · YouTube · Other apps · RSS

News / Assisted dying bill: How could the Parliament Act be used? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 128

As the assisted dying bill grinds through the House of Lords under the weight of more than a thousand amendments, Lord Falconer has signalled that time is running out. With the Bill unlikely to complete its Lords stages this Session, he has openly raised the possibility of using the Parliament Act to override the upper House in the next Session. In this episode we explore what that would mean, how it could work in practice, and the political choices now facing ministers and Parliament. Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · Acast · YouTube · Other apps · RSS

News / Who really sets MPs’ pay – And why you might be wrong about it. A conversation with Richard Lloyd, chair of IPSA - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 126

What are MPs actually paid and what does the public fund to help them do their job? In this conversation with Richard Lloyd, chair of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) we explore the delicate balance between supporting MPs to do their jobs effectively and enforcing strict standards on the use of public money. We discuss how IPSA has shifted from a rule-heavy “traffic cop” to a principles-based regulator, why compliance is now very high, and the security risks and pressures facing MPs‘ offices as workloads rise and abuse becomes more common. Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | ACAST | YouTube | Other apps | RSS